Talk:Tarellian
Contradictory information Contradictory statements in this episode may need to be addressed somewhere on this page. At one point, the Tarellians are stated to have been technologically and socially equivalent to late 20th century Earth before their near-extinction. However, their ship is consistently referred to on MA and other sources as a "starship" which usually implies faster-than-light travel (via Warp Drive or another means, which is relevant also so some stated info on the MA page for the "Tarellian Starship" that seems to come from nowhere in canon, like that it was "assembled at an underwater base and has Warp Drive"). It also seems to have artificial gravity, two technologies humans definitely did not possess until at least after the mid-21st century (it's not really clear whether 21st century humans had artificial gravity, there's contradictory evidence for this too). Wyatt also materializes on what looks a lot like a Tarellian transporter pad (but it is never explicitly stated to be one; there is a similar problem with the Sanction having transporter technology in "Symbiosis.") So Tarellians are socially and technologically equivalent to 20th century Earth, except that have artificial gravity, warp drive or another form of FTL, and also, very likely, transporters? Obviously the statement about Tarellian society and technology was meant to be a parallel to contemporary Earth, not alleging that their homeworld was identical in every way to 20th century Earth. It's quite possible that FTL (warp?) travel and artificial gravity were two exceptions to the rule, and not every civilization develops the same way technologically. It's possible the leader of Haven is referring to an alternative form of FTL travel when she says the "vessel bypassed our stargate," maybe some kind of "Portal Network" that sublight ships can access? It's also possible that the Tarellian Starship was the product of an advanced technology research program on the Tarellian homeworld, maybe one that was highly classified, but declassified when disaster struck and the people needed a way to escape? There's a lot of room for interpretation and fan theories here and that's not what MA is for, but we should at least acknowledge these discrepancies. I am going to cross post this on the "Tarellian Starship" page as well. 18:08, February 15, 2018 (UTC) :Most, if not all, of what you have said is speculation as evidenced by your use of terms like "It is possible" and "which usually implies". MA articles only incorporate information from canon productions and what is backed up by a valid production source. We do not include nitpicks for contradictions or errors in episodes. There is also no need for you to post this twice when one time is sufficient to generate a discussion. --| TrekFan Open a channel 19:03, February 15, 2018 (UTC) mmm... ok. You misunderstood,and you're confusing a thought process for a conclusion. My use of "it is possible" and "usually implies" were to illustrate a point, not suggest that these statements themselves should be added to the article. I also cross-posted it because it applies to both articles, or at least many of the same points do, but there were a few other points specific to the starship article. There are often notes about this on other pages when things don't "add up" or seem to contradict. I think the above writer misunderstood. I was not suggesting that those "possibilities" or "implications" should be mentioned in the article or a background section, merely that some statements about Tarellian technology don't make sense in the context of what we see (similarly as Scotty's line in "Balance of Terror" about the Bird-of-Prey being powered by "simple impulse" is generally not taken to indicate that Romulans in 2267 had no Warp Drive). This is common practice elsewhere on MA. Sorry if my use of examples seemed irrelevant, but the contradictions are pretty notable here. The contradictions should be mentioned in "background" the appropriate section. There are many, many examples of this where it's noted that something is ambiguous or contadictory and this was not resolved in canon. 21:31, February 15, 2018 (UTC) :I'm sorry if I have misunderstood you however it still reads to me like you are advocating the mentioning of nitpicks and production errors/contradictions which we don't put in articles unless there is a reliable and established source that talks about them, in which case it wll be background information. Have a read of MA:NIT for our policy on the subject. --| TrekFan Open a channel 13:44, February 16, 2018 (UTC) :: How about we analyze before we criticize. There is a difference between analyzing facts and flagging nits. :: I believe that the statement in question was with regards to biological weapons, with Crusher saying: "The Tarellians had reached Earth's late twentieth century level of knowledge. That's all you need if you're a damned fool. A deadly, infectious virus which at that modest level of knowledge is not difficult to grow." Quite frankly, that statement was with regards to a single fact, their level of biotechnology, alone. :: What's not to say that they didn't reach different levels of technological advancement at different times? We can't just assume they developed entirely 100% equal to late 20th century Earth, including their level of space travel, only that their knowledge of medicine or biotechnology had, as per the words of the good doctor. Clearly the rest of the dialog made it clear that they were advanced or resourceful enough to make it to other planets, which space travel wise, would require higher than a 20th century level of space travel tech. --Alan (talk) 14:22, February 16, 2018 (UTC) :: "The Tarellians had attained a level of technology comparable to late 20th century Earth, when a civil war caused deadly biological weapons to be unleashed on the planet, wiping out the Tarellian civilization." It's a reasonable interpetation that this refers to Tarellians and their society in general. Alan, your interpretation could be correct, but it seems like a stretch, and it means that when (iirc it was Dr Crusher) the folks on the Enterprise-D said said, they were being factually incorrect. That is, if what they meant to say was, "Their technology was advanced enough that they developed a bio-weapon comparable to those on 20th century Earth." But that line was not in the aired episode, the one that maybe incorrect and over-generalizing their technology and society is spoken in dialog. From the facts in that sentence alone, that this refers in general to the state of Tarellian technology, not biotechnology, is a logical conclusion. But then their ship is much more advanced so Dr. Crusher (iirc) was wrong. I forgot if she was the one who said it, it might have been Data, but, as it reads, this statement is highly misleading. This statement and every similar statement from secondary sources that can be verified, does not specify this assessment only relates to their biotechnology. The statement refers to a general (perhaps wrong, in-universe) assessment of the Tarellians as a civilization. If that assessment, stated in dialog by the crew of the Enterprise-D, was incorrect, then the description on this page should be changed to comply with the minimum of established facts, that their technology included starships as well as an approximately 20th century level of biotechnology (as per description in episode dialog) capable of producing the bioweapon mentioned multiple times in the episode. Also, TrekFan, thank you very being a mensch and not getting defensive when I said I thought you misread what I wrote. I very much appreciate the humility and lack of internet organ-wagging that is so common most other places online. EDITED FOR CLARITY. 21:56, February 17, 2018 (UTC)